I agree that the witchunt aspect of the event was ridiculous, and shouldn't have happened.

I'm a little less certain about the (im)propriety of the initial photo posting, though. On the one hand, she made a public ass of herself, and there can be public consequences for that. On the other, you don't need to see her face to tell the story... a blurred-out version of the same image would have conveyed what happened without the extra nonsense.

Wow, I too agree that it was right to post and flare up, but I do also agree that blurring her face was good enough to make "the point".

Thank god I'm ugly. Haha.

I disagree; and blurring of the face would not have been enough.

All of the young people at the scene just stared and did nothing. The person who posted her picture said something to her but did not report her to the police nor stationmaster. He also did not clean up the mess himself, instead watched an elderly man do it.

So what did he do? He posted her picture on the net knowing fully well what kind of public uproar such pictures would create. In short, he think wished his peers on the Net to do her harm, not the physical kind but the kind that some would consider more damaging and definitely longer lasting.

Re blurring, most of her face was covered with her hair so her face was not fully recognizable. Her accessories and her dog was enough to identify her.

I agree that such abuse shouldn't happen but the problem here is that such things not only happens in Korea but with near certainty on slow news days. Was he blameless? I think not.

Don,
You seem to be going overboard in ascribing malice to the picture taker and online netizens. If I saw someone being such a jerk in public, I'd probably blog about it as well. That doesn't make me part of some sort of modern day lynch mob.

I don't see the big issue. It does serve her right. Pick up your dog's shit on a subway train.

I hate to sound harsh, but I don't think this is that big a deal. People aren't even recognizing her face so all she has to do is wear a different watch and carry a different bag.

Perhaps people shouldn't have been so active in the witchhunt part of it, but I can see why they were. It teaches her a lesson.

Dare, I wouldn't say it was malice but more or less feeling that justice was due. That is not uncommon and, if it was to happen here, I doubt anybody would have responded like they did over there and I would be going overboard. But we are talking about 'there' and not 'here'. The difference I see is the difference between lighting a match in the middle of a street versus in the power room. Malice? No. Stupidity? Yes.

If you can read Korean, checkout

http://kr.news.yahoo.com/service/news/shellview.htm?linkid=4&newssetid=746&articleid=2005060818505982674

it talks about similar incidents and aftermaths.

If a young college (or independent) newspaper photographer took her picture and got it printed in a local paper would this be any different?

If someone took the picture (and without ID'ing her) took it to the police, would they be able to take any action?

I'm not as young and impulsive as I used to be, but I tend to think that public actions are not private, especially stupid ones. If she did this and a cop saw her, she'd definitely get a fine, and possible more serious consequences, and a public record from it.

Is net publicity better/worse than attempting a citizen's arrest?

It reminds me of the struggles that editors face when deciding about what pictures to run in the newspaper. Those editors need to make a judgement call based on the value of the picture and its relevance tot he story. But here, the person was outraged and ran the picture of the girl. That's totally different. It shows the dangerous flip side of citizen media.

Moral outrage is easy to flame. But the consequences can be mortal. Will the ease in inciting moral outrage create a mob driven police state? It may be when the powerful realize how they can use citizen "reporters," to influence mobs. That seems to be one of the real dangers of citizen journalism. If we do move to a world where the masses report individual behavior and it is cited and flamed by government, then the people are all the dictator needs to keep control.

I know that for me, I don't want to have the role of teaching someone a lesson. I don't want to take the role of deciding if someone is being a jerk in public. Why would you want to flame moral outrage? That's just what the powers want. They want the story deflected from them. Fueling moral outrage helps accomplih such a feat. Scrutiny now is directed on the powerless citizen, not the powerful elite.

Really, isn't it the powerful who we should be scrutinizing and not some woman who let her dog take a crap on the subway?

Great story.

The previously conjured, sci-fi 'police state'[1] is the current state - where anyone can monitor anyone else - doing thier 'thang (if you care). So if you are makin a public poopie, jaywalking, passing the dutchie, or media|boinkin (just ask Paris) - anyone else can make it a story. The more sensational/emotional the better - as MsM has known for years.

So I think the elephant in the blog-o-media-tele-pod-o-sphere may get larger - who's surveilling who? And what/how many 'longer-tail' segments are 'tuning-in'? What do you care a about? You have a voice now.

And where can the medium take it? As predicticed for years as a leveling of the playing field - is now a pedestrian reality. Now anyone any "any-cast".

The airwaves are open. Its up to humanity to decide.

Buckle up!

Among the comments to the Korean news story I linked to above was this:

"Thanks to technology, we are able to build a better society in which citizens are the police, prosecutors, and judges."

This problem will visit us rest of us with more immediacy in the near future.

Wayback-future machine:

Sorry to break-in again and I'm not sure if this is the time and place for this (The dog-shit-girl story) - but this seems a defining moment regarding personal privacy vs. voice of the people vs. overload/ambivalence vs. the 'state'. But I can't help it. This specific story is sticking with me.

The following is the best "sci-fi" (in it's purest sense) of a potential tecnology-based (police state optional) scenario - possibly stll many years away - yet envisioned in 1909(!) by E.M. Forster:

(even those over 50, heck over 90, take note!)

link: http://www.plexus.org/forster.html

I hope Bruce S. and W. Gibson are monitoring this channel...they would have much more to say...

Poop-casting is a sorry way to start, but where are the ideas? Are there any new ones? And do you care? Dare anyone bring up the 'attention economy' again?

Three thoughts, jr:

1. Attention and retention go hand in hand. Attention cuts, retention bleeds.

2. If Andy Warhol's "15 minutes of fame" comment was a coin, we just flipped the coin over.

3. I don't think we know what we are doing. So called technologists and futurists are just announcers and commentators on a comet called Destination Unknown.

Don, did we knew what we were doing even before the advent of commercial internet and the ton of today's gadget and gizmos?

And remind that once upon a time you relied on housewives talk or pub chatter to destroy someone's credibility in a neighboorhood... it could have been slower or more circumstantiated but it was effective as well in making someone's life hard, until the target relocated in another town, that is...

Oh, and we have already supplanted Warhol with David Weinberger by a long shoot :) ... "In the future, everyone will be famous to 15 people on the Web" ;)

"That doesn't make me part of some sort of modern day lynch mob." Isn't that part of the point of being in a lynch mob or a riot or a polluting company or any other sort of mob? The individuals feel that their individual actions were not really a big deal, just one kick, one broken window, one overlooked accounting bluff, but in the end something pretty nasty happens. For another example, see the classic dispicable dude thing that was posted on the register/ntk back in hmm 2002?

I would have to agree that it's nothing new in terms of human behavior, but I would like to divorce myself from it.

-Rich

3 words.

Social Slashdot Effect.

It`s something you're just completely unprepaired t odeal with, hitting you from every side. After a short delay, you collapse from the strain.

The potential for abuse seems pretty high -- all we have to go on is the word of the bloger -- a single image doesn't tell the whole story. How do any of us know that the girl didn't pick up the poop after the photo was taken? Couldn't any of us take a photo of a random stranger with a dog and say the same thing of a person? What if next time, it's not about a dog poop, it's about something more serious?

I Think there are two separate pieces to this.

1) The initial blogger. Do I think he had every right to post her? Yep. She was in public, and it really doesn't matter if she was in front of 100 or 1,000,00 people, she was willing to act that way in the public sphere. So an upset person chose to mention how upset he was to others. I agree with the earlier poster's mention of a college newspaper doing something along the same lines: it is a minor issue, but sometimes we have power to change behavior with our voices. In this case, I'd bet that many other people are suddenly more conscious of their dog poop and are more likely to serve the public good by cleaning it up.

2) The actions of the masses. I would believe an appropriate response would be to gently chide her if I saw her. No more, but I *would* be willing to say something. Unfortunately apparently many people would take this to far and she may suffer much more than scorn from strangers. I do note condone that.

Should the poster have been aware of the potential consequences? Yes, but he cannot be held responsible for most of what happens after. How many memes have come through the web in just the past 5 years? Should we go hurt the people who first linked to the Petere Pan Guy, the Speed Stack Girl, or anybody who's ever taped the Society of Creative Anachronism? No: they found something interesting or intriguing and decided to share someone's *public* display. It is the responsibility of the rest of us to act (or not) with care about our reactions. A mild scolding of the dog poop girl is fine, destroying her property or life would be another.

As for the poster who said this was all a distraction and we need to really attack the government and big media for their actual control...well, sure. But unless you want to spend every hour of every day indignant and fighting the Man, other issues may take some of your time. If you're Che Guevarra, rock on. But most of us aren't. And there is nothing wrong with also chastising yor neighbor for their behavior while fighting the system for its control. OF someone peed on your living room floor would you deal with them, or would you just let it go because we really need to spend our time confronting the Bush Administration?

Justice!

Blah, blah, blah. You all are too sympathetic. The bottom line is that she made her shitty bed and now she has to sleep in it. In this day and age, it was arrogant of her to think she was above a fundamental lesson we are all taught: clean up after your mess. To sympathize with this bitch is beyond my comprehension. Society made their judgement, to punish her (much like that in a court of law) so as to discourage any behavior similar to dogshitgirl. Screw her and anyone who gives a shit, pardon the pun, about the consequences.

What the hell are you talking about? This stupid bitch carries around a little dog because she _wants_ the goddamn attention anyways. That is the only reason people carry around their little yap-yap dogs everywhere.

She's an attention whore, and when gets the wrong attention, then she cries and whines and refuses to clean up her dog's mess.

She deserves everything she gets.

You may not like the fact that she was outed so publicly, and yet... somehow I think from now on, she just might clean up after her dog! And that, for people who have to live in her city, is a very, very good thing.

Let's put it this way

1) she was in a public place at the time. It's not like someone took her picture while she was at home or even in a restaurant.

2) Where do you draw the line? Are TV shows like America's Most Wanted OK ? This woman committed a crime. It may just be littering, but it was in fact a crime. Would you be against posting a picture of someone who, say, caused bodily injury to someone and then ran off ? What if you or the police obtained an image of someone from the scene of a violent crime, would it be OK to publicly post that image and ask for the criminal's identity ? How is this fundamentally different ? Does she really deserve privacy in this case ? Is the protection of her identity a right, and should it be ?

I am all for privacy, and I don't like the idea of being randomly photographed in public during my worst moments, yet... might society benefit from more of this type of thing? Isn't this a great use of camera phones and the internet ?

Yea, gadget-weilding finger-pointers. Sure. If someone's posting pictures of people picking their own noses and saying "shame", it reflects more poorly on the poster than the picker.

But public shaming of litterbugs? We need that in the U.S... I wonder if it would work to take pictures of the misdeeds of corporations ( pollution creators, deforestation, etc ) and blog *that*...

I really don't think it matters that it came out on the internet. It happened in a public place so it is excusable to discuss it in a public forum. This isn't going to ruin her life, it might make her clean up her dog's mess for a month though while the story goes around. We are a fickle bunch and she will be forgotten before the end of the season.

This is not punishment. This is personality hacking. She is an error in the social program, which happens to be open source. We all contribute. The socially conscious "hacker" that posted the error, is merely attempting to utilize the net to affect a correction for this faulty code. I would say that this error would not occur again. This was an effective patch for the error in the program. I would like to see more patches of this type. In fact, a worldwide error reporting system should be initiated.

Why would you blur her face? She wasn't wearing a mask when the dog mess happened. So, it's obvious that she wasn't embarressed by it. Every once in a while, it's good when someone who is an ass to be shown as an ass. Whether to a small group or large crowd. She needs to learn to be accountable, whether in front of 5 people or 5,000,000 people. It's really all the same. Manners are manners.

In the old days, people conformed to societal expectations and norms based on the feedback they got from those around them. These days, especially in large urban areas where anonymity prevails, most people seem to be afraid to cricitize anyone for anything. Maybe now technology will provide a way to reinstate that societal feedback. I doubt this epsiode would have occured in a small town where everyone knows everyone and such actions would have resulted in immediate consequences.

Too funny. I have no sympathy for her. And you can bet she'll not do it again.

Now can this be done for all the smokers who treat the world as their personal trash can?

Who is the despicable dude mentioned in ntk/register?

This is eerily similar to the saga of laura krishna:
http://www.aweekofkindness.com/blog/archives/articles/the_laura_k_krishna_saga/

The problem with this sort of justice is that there is no possibility of context. Dogshitgirl has never had a chance to tell her side of the story. Granted, what she did was ostensibly bad mannered. However, every single person on this earth has experienced lapses of judgement, politeness, "goodness" etc, for whatever reason - stress at work, family bereavement, could be anything. Although she also could simply be a total bitch... who knows? Certainly not the mob.

Mob justice by definition is hasty and hysterical. It was this sort of attitude that resulted in a paediatrician being attacked in Britain, because a mob of self-righteous, non-thinking idiots mistook him for a paedophile.

While dogshitgirl needs to be accountable, she should be accountable to the people she has harmed. Not a hysterical mob who knows nothing about the context of the incident or the people involved. The person who put her on the web should be ashamed of him/herself.

The problem with this sort of justice is that there is no possibility of context. Dogshitgirl has never had a chance to tell her side of the story. Granted, what she did was ostensibly bad mannered. However, every single person on this earth has experienced lapses of judgement, politeness, "goodness" etc, for whatever reason - stress at work, family bereavement, could be anything. Although she also could simply be a total bitch... who knows? Certainly not the mob.

Mob justice by definition is hasty and hysterical. It was this sort of attitude that resulted in a paediatrician being attacked in Britain, because a mob of self-righteous, non-thinking idiots mistook him for a paedophile.

While dogshitgirl needs to be accountable, she should be accountable to the people she has harmed. Not a hysterical mob who knows nothing about the context of the incident or the people involved. The person who put her on the web should be ashamed of him/herself.

This is a good example of one of the moral grey areas by which all societies work. What she did went against some collective idea of acceptability, and the collective struck back. It may not have been a measured or even considered response, but it didn't have to be. It served its purpose.

If societies didn't work in this way, I think you'd have a lot more to complain about.

Farmer Bob seems to have got it right - how does anyone who reads the post actually know she did what was described? Even if she did, will someone see this post, think "Eureka!" and set up their enemy? That way Switzerland lies.

The problem with some kind of electronic mob descending upon this woman is that they have no idea why she behaved so badly. They just assume that she's a bad person and project the image of all the bad people they'd like to punish but can't onto her.

Maybe she's mentally ill. Maybe she just got the crap kicked out of her by her husband or boyfriend. Maybe she was upset about something and just wanted to go home. Maybe it's her mother's dog and her mother is cruel to her and she hates the dog because of it and didn't even want to take it on the stupid train but had to. Nobody knows.

In either case, even if she is just a bad person, a couple turds on the floor do not justify a national electronic witchhunt.

In The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, Stephen Covey describes an incident on a train where a passenger won't keep his kids under control. Stephen says something harsh to him at which point the man, obviously sincere, tells him that his wife just died and the kids don't know about it yet and he doesn't know how to tell them. Stephen ends up feeling like a jerk because of his own ignorant assumptions.

Similarly, the way to handle it would have been to sit next to the woman and quietly ask if she needed a hand cleaning up the mess. If she refused to help, then she should be told just as quietly that the next time it happens she'll be reported to the subway authorities.

So the crowd stripped her naked, threw her into a portable toilet, and 500 people shat on her parent's lawn: bitch deserved it!

Please.

Mob rule is a poor path to justice. When it doesn't kill the wrong person, it's often out of proportion to the crime, and often it's used as a tool of outright oppression - lynchings, Muslim-Hindu rioting, responses to street crime in Africa, Kristallnacht - it's not a pretty history, and certainly nothing to be smug about.

Don't get me wrong - a little street justice now and then is a nice thing - but mobs can't be turned off. Prove she's not a witch, and they'll burn her anyway.

"Abuse by the mob is indistinguishable from abuse by dictators yet they just don't see it in the heat of righteousness. Are they wary of ruining her life or hounding her into suicide?"

I disagree. Dictators can jail, fine, and kill you. This is easily distinguished from embarassment. Also, we have all been embarassed before, letting it ruin your life or committing suicide is a personal choice.

Cleaning up the mess of someone who refuses to clean up after themselves is no punishment at all. It's worse, it shows them that there's no consequences for their behavior, and that you can leave shit somewhere (literally) because someone else will clean it up.

She doesn't deserve to have her family and friends harassed. She does deserve to be called dogshitgirl forever and ever in perpetuity, because she was a girl who let her dog take a shit on the subway. I personally don't CARE why she behaved badly, because there's just some shit you DON'T do, and among those things is allowing old men to pick up your dog's shit. There is no excuse for that.

My conclusion is that this DSgirl does not deserve to have a dog, poor dog.

So, what is the appropriate punishment for leaving your dogshit lying around?

- Erik -

You just don't understand guilt. When somebody is raised by it, it becomes a powerfull tool over his/her mind.

The catholic church(tm) understood that.

- Erik -

You just don't understand guilt. When somebody is raised by it, it becomes a powerfull tool over his/her mind.

The catholic church(tm) understood that.

This is the future of justice. Non violent, no fines involved, severe punishment through confronting the abuser against the global society. We fear exposition more than we fear fines.

If she did what she was alleged to do, I have no sympathy.

But what if she didn't? What if Dog-Shit Girl has a dog and a bag, and a bitter ex-boyfriend bent on getting back at her for dumping him, but her dog never took a dump in the subway? The picture might really be of her, and everyone in Soeul has broadband, so now she's ruined, whether guilty or not.

You're all idiots.

Sometimes public humiliation is the only way to make others think before they do anything that irrational. Sorry but that girl deserved what she got. That dog was her responsibility and she should have cleaned up after it. If she did, none of this would have happened and she would not have been humiliated.

But on the other hand the request of her parents and her past was uncalled for. Why embarrass the parents? The parents did their job of raising her, she should have known better.

I have a question. Please answer this for me. If this happened in america, could she sue the person who ruined her life?

What she could do now is go after the person who took her picture. She could hire private investigators to find out the identity of that person. Next, she can do the same thing that person did (payback).

What if the girl didn't understand manners. What if she thought that people who clean the bus should clean it. Like when you spill something in a restaurant or a plate of food falls and makes a mess, the restaurant will clean it up. She probably got defensive when they asked her to clean it up. A lot of people get defensive initially when they're subjected to a threat.

"The problem with this sort of justice is that there is no possibility of context. Dogshitgirl has never had a chance to tell her side of the story."

What side of the story would that be? She owned the dog and brought the dog into a public place. Since most dogs aren't toilet trained, it is her public duty and responsibility to clean up after her dog. IMMEDIATELY. In fact, not only should she have picked up the crap right then and there, she should have apologized to everyone present.

I thought we in America were the only ones in the world who didn't take personal responsibility seriously any longer. Guess I was wrong.

Peer pressure, social condemnation and where necessary, ostracism, are powerful forces that have been used to help people walk the line that their society draws. But as developed societies grow and anonymity becomes easier to achieve, these techniques have proven less effective. I think this "outing" is a great development and use for blogs! But I'd like to see if someone would be brave enough to do this to say a mean looking person on the NYC subway?

Overall, I see nothing wrong with what was done to this girl. Hopefully, she has learned a lesson. If not, the next time her dog shit's on the train, they should take the dog away from her and penalize her somehow, maybe by making her walk about the city picking up dog shit for a month.

This woman is a poor excuse for a pet owner.

She doesn't deserve to own a dog if she won't take care of the responsibilities that go with having a pet.

She had it coming. Your basic argument is that she should get away with it because she didn't expect the whole world to see her awful behavior. Well, they did.

What's the old saying? Your conscience is what tells you do do right even when nobody's watching. She doesn't appear to have one, and I've no pity for such a disastrous human.

It's not like she could just 'pick it up'.

Uh, 'privacy' is a fairly recent development in human society, brought about by rapid transport.

For most of human history, a person was born, lived, married, raised a family and died in the same small circle of people. After agriculture developed, and before rapid transport, most people did all these things in a very small area, geographically; perhaps within a 50 mile radius, just to put a number on it?

All the technology is doing is creating a situation where anonymity can no longer be used as a weapon of deceit. A person can be secretly 'bad' (however it is defined) until they get caught, then travel far enough away that word of mouth will not reach them, settle down, and start being 'bad' again, secretly. This type of technology means that anonymity will be the property of quiet, inoffensive people who are not extra-ordinarily good looking. Offensive behavior will carry the potential of affecting one's life either permanently or for a long period of time, as the society watches 'miscreants' to make sure they don't revert.

How this differs, sociologically, from small-town/village/hamlet living (in a situation without rapid transportation) is difficult to notice and explain.

Whether it will be beneficial or harmful, liberating or stifling, in the long run, is an open question. In the short term, it appears likely to be both beneficial AND stifling. With some of the behavior in the world today, a little stifling might be a *good thing*.

She did it in public. What's the difference whether 50 people saw it or 50,000? We aren't exactly peeking in the woman's bedroom window, here.

It's really scary to see so many people rush to judgement before understanding why such an unusual situation would have happened in the first place.

Ideally, society creates laws and boundaries to uphold the common good and protect its citizens. The by-product of this is that the established laws are meant to keep society progressing and in working order. If someone breaks the established law, they must face the penalty that the law provides. To take matters into one's own hands through a mob mentality breaks down that fabric, and in turn nurtures greater evils such as oppression, paranoia, hysteria and suffering.

The honorable thing to do would have been to ask her if she needed assistance. If she still did not cooperate, then the law shoul dhave been informed of this incident. No one has the right to tear another person's life apart.

Are some of you idiots serious??? If you come with that kind of attitude in a public place, don't be surprised if people don't take your shit (figuratively AND literally). This is how real justice should work, so think twice before being a pompous jackass...

It's sad to see some really nasty comments here. Has it occured to some of you that we've only heard one side of the story? Is it within the realm of possibilities that the character who took the photos screamed at her, or called her a "whore" or whatever and THEN she said "f*ck off" (if she said that at all?)? The poster of these pics could be the jerk.

There's probably thousands of scenarios that could have actually transpired other than what one person says.

It might be true, but if it's not, all those condemning her are the ones guilty of being dog shit.

"Request for information about her parents and relatives started popping up and people started to recognize her by the dog and the bag she was carrying as well as her watch, clearly visible in the original picture."

I guess that look is out this summer.

First, she was photographed committing a very rude crime in a public place. Second, dog owners who don't clean up after their pets need to be taught a lesson. Personally, I wouldn't have been upset if the bitch had dog excrement smeared on her face. Merely posting pictures that identified her as the "dog shit girl" seems both moderate and appropriate.

As the saying goes, 'Shit happens.'

Let's buy the Dog-Shit-Girl a new bag and watch and a new collar for her dog> I setup an Amazon wishlist for Gae-Ttong-Nyue.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/registry/registry.html/ref=cm_wl_rlist_go/103-2093179-0346218?%5Fencoding=UTF8&id=RHOFX2IF7G5I

And I guess you could say that this was the electronic method of 'rubbing her nose in it'. Can someone research the Japanese law re: pooper scoopers on the subways there? Perhaps there is no law that was broken and this was just a case of an anal retentive passenger taking offense to an anal expressive poodle?

The Captain said
"Can someone research the Japanese law re: pooper scoopers on the subways there? Perhaps there is no law that was broken and this was just a case of an anal retentive passenger taking offense to an anal expressive poodle? "

Korean. Did you mean "Korean" law?

if you own a digital camera and have access to the internet...

you == the man.

i'll be keeping a close eye on all of you camera-owning, keepin-me-down-with-minimun-wage-making-me-eat-mcdonalds orwellians.

wait, was what i just said just as irrelevant as poop girl?

I think being called "Dog shit Girl" is adequate punishment for a poopy dog and a shitty attitude. The golden rule is clean up your dog's shit....especially if someone is looking! In this case there were clearly onlookers...goving the reasonable expectation that she should scoop the poop.

Quote from Liquid Chocolate: "It's not like she could just 'pick it up'."

She didn't have to tell everyone to fuck off, either. The dog did it in public (sometimes you've got to go) but the way she handled the situation was terrible. For me, it is right to publicly humiliate her.
As for "driving her to suicide", if she killed herself as a result of her actions on the train, so be it. Why would you suicide from something like this...

that's funny. my nickname is shit chest boy.

Everyone lighten up. She will be forgotten as soon as another story arises.

You have to realize that today you are nearly always on camera, either by the government, businesses, or your own neighbors, and that will only increase, so act accordingly.

There's no such thing as privacy when you are in public places.

i find it curious that you are outraged at the netizens treatment of her, yet you posted links to the pictures.

as it is, she deserves the reaction she is getting. her behavior is no better than her dog's.

Well, the "don't ask, don't tell" judging model doesn't work... but the "OMFG SHE DID THIS AND THAT" judging model is the total opposite. Pointing her out, I think is ok. Making fun of her is not.

Besides, why did she bring a dog on the train car in the first place?

To the people talking about laws broken, there may or may not have been a civil law in place. But letting your dog, which you are personally responsible for, crap in a constrained, public place and not picking it up is a violation of at least "common sense" law. But as I think Mark Twain said "Common sense isn't so common".

As for Tom's post about many sides of the story, that's nothing but BS and pure internet where there it is guaranteed that there will ALWAYS be someone to play devil's advocate. The report was that she let her dog crap on the train. Witnesses corroborated the report. What more do you need? I don't care if she is mentally deranged, had a bad hair day, broke up with her boyfriend or whatever.

It's people like yourself, always look for possible alternative reasons/excuses, who when they get on a jury, let criminals like Richard Scrushy of Health South fame walk away scot free from 85 counts of fraud.

Anonymity of the masses is something unnatural. Genetically we aren't accustomed to it. You should see this in the light of our genetic make-up in order to make a judgement about her actions and those of the korean populace. We are largely genetic animals.

Consider the idea that she wasn't anonymous in this situation. We if we are to be moral citizins should act as if we are known by all and not anonymous. Consider the fact she let her dog shit in a carriage or large cart, or maybe even a train, smack in the middle of her peers. Letting her dog shit on a train, where strangers have to deal with it is an abhorrent act. It's morally equivalent to doing the same in front of her own parents, neighbours etc. If she were living in a campus, with her parents, in a small village, i.e. "the genetic default" of our psyche, she would have had roughly the same treatment she suffers now. And sure as hell she would not have done what she did.

Yet in hiding behind anonymity she did something outrageous. She didnt take responsibility for her actions and drew quite a bad lottery ticket.

The other side of the coin is the genetic disposition of people to gang up. Little villages, small communities, i.e. "the tribal structure" that is the default in our psyche (and the basis for my moral judgement), all have a nasty streak to persecute the "lesser" member. Too bad if you are unpopular, ugly, less vocal, etc, because that increases the odds of an overreaction on the mob. Take for instance the hysterical, almost psychotic hatred you get when the mob "discovers" a pedophyle. Sure, abuse of children is a severe crime, but mob justice towards pedophyles is generally significantly worse. I would expect there to be some feelings of guilt in such a reaction. Notice that certain middle aged men will become the most vehement when persecuting pedophyles. Maybe they sunconsciously want to hide their own actions or desires?

However the third consideration is the aspect of life experience. The old man who cleaned up the mess was showing wisdom. His actions were probably not based on a desire for praise, but right now he's probably invited on talk shows. His little act of humility or wisdom or decency was what gives me hope in humanity. Such people keep our community alive.

Shame is a powerful tool for behavior modification. We live in a shameless modern society. Perhaps this went a bit overboard (as Net phenomenon are wont to do), but like the girl who was outed as a plagiarist, perhaps this girl will think twice next time before acting up in front of someone with a camera phone.

Serves her right the fucking nasty bitch.

What is the big deal?

She had no problem voicing her opinion to everyone initially in that public space...

If she had no shame or remorse at that time, why would she care if people were upset with her outside of that particular domain or moment or venue?

HIRARIOUS!!!!

Clean it up? fuck no. I would have made her trip in her own shit as she left.

We, not They, are Big Brother!

In America, at least, people have no expectations of privacy when out in public. If someone photographs you, while they cannot make money selling the picture privately without your consent, they can take the picture, and they can publish or sell it to a news outlet -- as long as it is a publicly-available media outlet of some sort. The Supreme Court has ruled that the internet constitutes a publishing medium, in cases such as this.

The girl did several stupid and rude things in a public train car full of people. She should not be surprised that someone published a story detailing what happened. As long as the facts are accurate, she has no basis whatsoever to complain about the photo or the story, and certainly no grounds for a tort.

Laws may well differ in Korea, so I can't be sure the same applies in this case. But IMHO, it should

Did you bbuys look at the mess? It wasn't some convenient little turn, it was slippery messy unpleasant. No matter how bad her day (for the apologists out there), she has to clean up her own mess or get someone else to do it by whatever means (money, flirting, whatever). The worst thing to do from society's perspective, is say 'fuck you it's not my problem'.

I think she deserves her little sobriquet and her 15 minutes of infamy.

Well I think there is a lesson here for everyone.

Irresponsibility vs. fascism, the war in on, w00t!

Big Brother is winning. We must resist.

The question is: should we blog at all?

I think one aspect which has been missed above is the effect it has on anyone who reads the story. Hopefully most of us would never let our dog crap on a train and leave it but if we would have before then i reckon we won't now. That is progress for me. As i in Luxembourg where there is dog crap everywhere i'm going to tell everyone i know about this story!

As for finding stuff about her family that sucks, what do they have to do with the situation?

Her act was in public, and she should be publicly chastised.

Had this dog dropping incident occurred on either the Philadelphia or NYC subway how could you tell ?

So, sufficient technology makes the whole world like a small town. Freedom limited by savage peer pressure. Safer streets?

And don't think for one minute that governments, 'oppressive' and otherwise, aren't observing this and going "Hmmmmm." Be afraid. Be very afraid. The loss of liberty will not come all at once, it will suffocate like a boa constrictor, squeezing a little more every time we relax. It is inevitable.

Here's one aspect of this entire conversation that you are all failing to recognize:

Who Gives a F*CK.

Somehow I doubt that the nastiest thing in Korea is some dog shit on the subway. Can't I get underage prostitutes there for pennies on the Dollar? Let's Blog THAT up, kids.

I think most of you are overlooking the *lack of control* in this type of public justice. The Net empowers each of us with a voice but that voice can be abused and in uncontrollable ways: threatening individuals, store owners, or government works with their technology-driven power to disseminate lies, half-truths, and embarrasing photos.

I also do not believe people passing through in public space are fair game for privacy violation. Is your grandmother walking home subject to ridicule because she walked funny? How would you like it if someone took her picture just because she looked funny and blasted it across the Net with the label Wacky Walky Grandma?

I'd call it perfect justice. We should do it in the US to all the people who feel absolute freedom to behave as badly and rudely as they choose with no accountability. I wish people did that here, the person would probably sue of course but still..

I'd have to say the dog shit girl got and is going to get what she asked for and in no short order. By allowing herself to act in a manner akin to a barbarian (allowing her pet to shit in a VERY public space, and then retorting to and elderly person with complete disrespect) she has put herself in a light not usually seen in tody's civil society. Call it Karma, call it f-ed up. I've seen people slapped accross the face for less. And as for the dog doo....(i HATE these people)think about how many dog owners let that stuff just sit on the open sidewalk and stink/infect/drag the place down. I say screw these folk. No respect for others = no respect for them. I bet there will be a little less crap in my way tommorrow thank god.

"I also do not believe people passing through in public space are fair game for privacy violation. Is your grandmother walking home subject to ridicule because she walked funny?"

That's a horribly inept comparison. Grandma didn't sh*t on the sidewalk as she was walking and refuse to pick it up because she's a self-important guttersnipe.

Personally I am really shocked that so many people are upset that she was outed publicly for what she is. She should have been publicly restrained and beaten for talking to elders this way and for allowing her dog to make a mess on the train. Granted, people on the train should have called the police and located someone at a stop to fine her and make her clean it up, but this is not a good person on any level and she deserves everything and anything coming to her as a result of this posting and it's good that her and her family are harrased for her complete lack of social control; perhaps she will learn her lesson like no other way (a ticket or fine has little impact on people like this), and if nothing else the embarassement her family has suffered will pass on to her in a most uncomfortable manner.

Had she done this in NYC she would have been beat down, arrested, and beat down again by the police for mouthing off (which is a given seeing as how she acted and then responded to people during the situation and afterwards when she was outed publicaly)... and while some of you panzys might not appreciate it, it's really well deserved and appropriate.

She is lucky she lives in a civil society that allows her to press on in life without loss of liberty or life over such a disgusting series of transgressions - she is indicative of the errosion of common sense, propriety, and order in this world. It's sad that so many people don't see this either.

Who is the despicable dude, mentioned above in the register/ntk?
This is similar to Laura Krishna (Google it!). Right or wrong, the internet is a cruel historian.

What if this is all made up? What about the next time?

Of course this matters. Anyone who dates this girl, or wants to hire this girl will Google her name. Her story will probably appear.

Who cares? You should. Be a good human, and it won't happen to you.

There are many interesting comments here (as well as the plain nasty...), but no-one seems to have raised the question of what social behaviour is appropriate in Korea, as opposed to anywhere else.

Without wanting to apply any kind of cultural stereotype, I think it's fair to say that there is a far stronger sense of "community" (in the sense of society being a communal structure in Korea than in many other countries. I don't mean nationalism, I mean a sense that everyone's actions are bound up with those of others.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not suggesting that letting your dog foul the subway is somehow acceptable behaviour in Korea.

I suspect, however, that publicising someone's anti-social behaviour to the community is more in tune with Korean notions of social behaviour than in some Western societies. I could well be wrong - but I think it's important to recognise the cross-cultural dimension.

[quote]Transparent society? It looks more like a society of gadget-wielding finger-pointers to me.[/quote]

wtf? sounds like a stereotype to me. who the fuck would say such a thing? this is a typical, ignorant american response. the girl is stupid bitch and deserved what she got.

in america we post pics of drunk people and add thos stupid little mastercard priceless comments that spread like ewildfire all over the internet. we are no less innocent you judgemental bastard.

[quote]Transparent society? It looks more like a society of gadget-wielding finger-pointers to me.[/quote]

wtf? sounds like a stereotype to me. who the fuck would say such a thing? this is a typical, ignorant american response. the girl is stupid bitch and deserved what she got.

in america we post pics of drunk people and add thos stupid little mastercard priceless comments that spread like ewildfire all over the internet. we are no less innocent you judgemental bastard.

I disagree. I think people are becoming less responsible for their actions, and getting away with it. Nobody wants to say or do anything out of fear for confrontation. A witch-hunt isn't the answer, but I don't see anything wrong with exposing everyday jerks. The first fewexposed jerks would pay the price of embarassment, but people may learn to do the right thing.

She deserves everything she gets. Plus, poor dog, it'll probably be eaten. They have been known to do that in Korea.

Dog poops in private, respect her privacy.

Dog poops in public, it is a public matter.

I think I just found my future wife. My current one only lets the dog shit in my shoes or on my side of the bed.

shit happens

The fact is, we don't know her side of the story. There are *NO* situations in which mob "justice" is a valid option. I have read comments here that have gone so far as to propose beating this woman. You should be ashamed of yourself. You claim to live in a 'civilised' society, and yet you advocate beating someone for what amounts to littering. This is why we have laws. To protect us from people like you.

Furthermore, if this had happened in America, I'm sure the consequences would have been far worse than a little embarrassment. I'm sure it would have eventually gotten to the point where death threats would have been made. This page is further proof that we are a nation of idiots.

nudes of dogshit girl?

if a the owner of a chemical company dumped somthing into a local river, illegaly... Wouldnt you hope someone got a picture of it happening? Should the poluting bastard be protected because he thought he was in private?

We should never take JUSTICE into our own hands... But we do have the power to shame those who break minor rules. No one is gaurenteed a free-ride in society (unless your pretty), usually you have to work at being liked by others.

Big cities have suffered these kinds of things for a long time, since there are so many people, it is assumed you are annomyous. This story is a reminder that it is no longer the case.

She dosent deserve to be harassed... but i hope she catches some shit!

P.S. I'll second the above post... Nudes of DSG?

Nudes of DSG? LOL. Oh you farkers.

I agree with some of the other responses. Shame is indeed a valuable tool for keeping in check the sort of indifference and arrogance that seem to permeate in this Paris Hilton culture.

someone should have grabbed that girl by the neck and rubbed her face on the floor in the mess. your dog does not have the right to crap in public transport, doesn't matter what country you are in, be responsible for your actions. that includes your pets actions in public if you take your pet out.

Personally, MORE people all over the civilized world should do things like this to others. Use the technology they're paying for to out the idiots and morons of the world they live in. It seems that embarassment would be a great motivator against doing something crude or stupid.
And as for "aggrevating her to suicide..."

...I hope we're that lucky. the world could use one less asshole.

"Among the comments to the Korean news story I linked to above was this:

"Thanks to technology, we are able to build a better society in which citizens are the police, prosecutors, and judges."

This problem will visit us rest of us with more immediacy in the near future."

Yes, and among the comments are also:
"Pleast stop this, stop harassing..."
you're too busy looking for the worst of it, and had no qualms about commenting about the mis-behavior of others.
mayhaps the high horse is time to be retired.

My favorite part of all this is the people who say that we need to hear her side of the story first, because if her father has just died, or some other bad event has taken place in her life, then we can excuse her actions because of her emotional state.

That's exactly what's wrong with the world today. All sorts of anti-social behavior is given a free pas because someone was feeling bad/moody/depressed, and that makes it okay.

Hell no it doesn't. Many witnesses corraborated the story. She wanted to be narcissistic and selfish, and she paid the price. Those people who think she should have been gently coddled and talked-to and warned are the kind of people who are repsonsible for this kind of behavior showing up in the first place.

Lack of personal responsibility is the problem here. And it's really prevalent these days.

I do not believe that there was anything done wrong in this case. If I would have been on that train and asked her to clean it up and she refused or told me to "f**k off!". The only pictures you would have seen would have been a man cleaning it up and throwing it in her face. Everyone has a different way of reacting, and I think there was nothing wrong with the reactions for this particular situation.

My 2 cents.

Another Jay

it's totally obvious that she should have bludgeoned to death. anything else would be a mockery to the crime's severity.

fhgx

Interesting that you bash the netizens for making a showcase of this womans stupity and arrogance. Also interesting you used it in your blog to get attention.

CLean up your poop

In the "old days", you were mean or arrogant or ... and the
whole village would find out and you would "suffer" the wrath...
And NO ONE would ever do THAT again...so we live in a "Global Village" now, and I wish all could go through the same plight, could make this planet a whole lot nicer to live in....

I am so in love with Dog Shit Girl I could cry. This is the best story ever. One woman alone against all odds in a conservative, no repressive, society. She yearns to resist, to protest the only way she knows how against the rigid norms that fetter her free spirit. No amount of riducule can break the iron will of of Dog Shit Girl. Dog Shit Girl FOREVER!

Dog Shit Girl, will you marry me?

Maybe the puppy was sick and she had to take it to the vet, maybe that's why she had it on the train, maybe that's why it pooped. Someone said she just wanted attention, and that was why she was carrying a dog. When did having a dog make you a subject for derision? Maybe she didn't have anything to clean it up with. Maybe she was waiting till she could find something to clean it up with. Maybe she was young, embarrased, sick herself, learning disabled, deaf, who knows what? Maybe all the hostility from everyone stopped her from doing something she might have done if someone had been kind and said "Here is a napkin, I will help you by holding your dog while you clean that up." or something.
If someone had been raped or killed, or robbed I doubt if the same reaction woul have ensued. Gimme a break already people!

The clueless girl deserved it. I would have picked up the shit with a napkin and smeared it all over her face. The poor little dog has diarrha and she probably doesn't even realize that her dog's sick or has round worms.

don rory drory@aol.com SAID--
"QUOTE"She deserves everything she gets. Plus, poor dog, it'll probably be eaten. They have been known to do that in Korea."UNQUOTE"

This sounds like racism to me. Maybe we shoud do the way they did the girl in question? What do you say?

So when's the movie coming out?

First of all, I truly believe that she got what she deserved. Actually, I think they should continue w/ the witch-hunt until she actually apologizes to the "elderly" people she told to F@$# Off!!

She is not only tainted in society and is/was embarrassed but there is one thing that she can’t get back: Face! She lost face. She not only caused her family shame but she dishonored them. I have been living in this country for almost 95% of my life and I know that to loose honor and face in society is pretty much the worse thing you can do. I feel bad for her family BUT I will never ever pity her. She has problems and she needs to fix them or have someone else fix it for her.

If any of you understood very much about Korean culture, you'd know that Koreans act like they're a gigantic family - a relationship that has plenty of pros and cons. Camera phones and readily available internet bandwidth in all forms makes it a ripe territory for gossiping - which is all this really is. As usual, she'll be forced from the spotlight - 20 or 30 minutes from now - since the mobs' appetite will already be whetted for the next tidbit of trite gossip. I wish I could say Americans were any better.

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