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Microsoft Hiring Hypocrisy
by Don Park at 2003/11/27 12:14:12

With my stomach full of turkey, I was cleaning out my mailbox when I came upon a recent recruitment e-mail from Microsoft.  It was for some Windows security software developer positions which I am obviously over-qualified for based on my experiences and knowledge.  Wrong.  The job requires a 'BS or MS degree in CS or equivalent field'.

You see, I dropped out of UC Berkeley about 20 years ago because I lost interest in physics over software engineering.  I have been programming since I was in highschool and taught myself well-beyond the undergraduate CS level, so I started working as a software engineer instead of switching major to CS and face the boredom.  Besides, I was having difficulty paying my way through college.

Anway, I thought it was amusing that a company started by Bill Gates, a dropout like me, requires its engineers to have a degree.  Thinking that it might be a fluke, I checked some software architect positions at Microsoft Career pages and found that all of them requires a degree in CS or equivalent field.  Obviously the job requirement for the Chief Software Architect position is different from mere Software Architect positions at Microsoft.

If this is not hypocrisy, I don't know what is.

Comments
Bruce   at 2003/11/27 09:49:34 PM
Go ahead and apply - you might find we're not as anal about that degree requirement as you think.

senkwe   at 2003/11/27 09:57:35 PM
Alot of companies do that, but it really doesn't mean you MUST have a degree. It's just a way to weed out chancers. Otherwise it's a free for all. The degree requirement makes it less likely that garage hacks will submit CV's. The interview process in your case would determine your level expertise. Plus I'm sure there are MS staffers that read your blog.

Don Park   at 2003/11/27 10:43:52 PM
Yes, I am sure they make exceptions as I have never actually had anyone complain to me except to ask why I dropped out. Still, it's pretty annoying. As to applying, I am pretty happy being a consultant, particularly the ability to work on wide range of projects.


Roger Benningfield   at 2003/11/28 01:25:37 AM
Don: Heh... one of the reasons I've never even bothered looking for corporate work is that I dropped out of high school in '86, a year short of graduation. Given that few of those working in corporate environments look like they're having much fun, I don't loose a lotta sleep over it. :D

Jim   at 2003/11/28 11:15:20 AM
I don't have a degree and have been doing corporate work for over 15 years now. One of the problems I've had this past year is that without a degree the automatic screening procedures put you in the wrong pile. The only way I've been able to get in the door to talk to anybody has been through headhunters who if you don't know personally are employing the same procedures. I saw a good looking armored car the other day but my back was bothering me...

Bryant   at 2003/11/28 01:42:33 PM
Oracle's like that, actually. I got through the Oracle interview process fairly well once, until my would-be boss asked me where I'd graduated from. I explained, "Nowhere." Long pause, then: "Well, Ellison really likes people to have a degree, but we'll see what we can do."


PaulT   at 2003/11/28 05:36:19 PM
It may be more of a wisdom. Typical dropout is more likely to steal some new stuff, rather than produce/invent the new stuff.


Jim   at 2003/11/28 05:43:51 PM
"you don't want to join them, Don"


Don Park   at 2003/11/28 09:32:45 PM
Paul, I know what you are saying but I would argue that creative folks are more likely to drop out than the non-creative. I am absolutely certain that my being unusually inventive is the reason my threshold for boredom is so low. It's also the reason I have been consulting for most of my 20 year career. Ability to work on several wild varieties of projects per year is amazingly addictive, not unlike being hooked on dating a different woman every week.


Omar Shahine   at 2003/11/29 10:44:12 AM
Those requirements are bs anyway. No one ever asked me for my diploma or transcript when I was hired.

Alfredo Octavio   at 2003/11/29 03:46:26 PM
Well, I have a Ph.D. (in mathematics) and was a research mathematician for 9 years. I am sure the Ph.D. has helped get jobs, but I have not gotten a lot of offers from places where I didn't knwo somebody... That means no offers from Microsoft, Apple or Sun (I've applied to all three... and hundreds more)... Pity, I coulda help those guys...

David Lemson   at 2003/11/29 05:54:33 PM
More than 50% of Microsoft hires are referrals from other employees. If someone refers you and says that you are a stud (or studette), you're likely to get an interview no matter what kind of degree you have. Of course, if you're looking for a job being a developer, you should at least be able to show how you know how to code, whether it's school-taught, self-taught, or both.


Don Park   at 2003/11/29 09:21:37 PM
It's the same for my consulting business. 90% of the business is based on referrals.


Eric Gunnerson   at 2003/11/30 01:20:35 PM
I've hired several people without college degrees into Microsoft developer positions. I do think that a CS degree is useful in many positions, but it's not a requirement.

Kevin Marks   at 2003/12/01 02:29:24 AM
A degree requirement is so HR can filter applications without having to use judgement. This not only saves them effort, it insulates them from lawsuits alleging discrimination by being able to point to objective criteria.


pb   at 2003/12/01 07:50:08 AM
There's no hypocrisy. They wouldn't want drop-outs who are too dumb or unmotivated to know that it's not a strict requirement.

Steve Wilhelm   at 2003/12/01 09:55:47 AM
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana


John Porcaro   at 2003/12/01 07:32:24 PM
Microsoft hired me sans degree, and paid for me to get it. I got my BA in Marketing at the University of Washington in 2002.


Sebastien Lambla   at 2003/12/04 05:15:07 AM
The H1B visa is largely limited to bachelor's degrees equivalent. This is also very stupid, but in the case of a VISA application, you can't get past the blond HR or the automated program...

Menard   at 2004/01/30 02:38:00 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but being a LAW dropout Bill Gates should have a B.S. Degree. In short, he's no undergraduate!

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